I received an interesting email from a Muslim who said Islamic prayers really are effective. He didn’t like it when I asked him to provide evidence supporting the effectiveness of Islamic prayers. Enjoy the read:
“Guess youre not familiar with Islam after all, considering in another video of yours- rather a pathatic atempt of ruining our image- you made a hadith up!”
I guess you’re not as familiar with Islam as I am, and I definitely would never claim to be an expert. The hadith was not made up. Read it for yourself on the PDF here: http://x.co/UNRl go to page 319, you can read the Arabic or English version.
“let’s ignore the part where God tortures us for not praying for a while now, shall we?”
I prefer not to ignore the parts where God threatens to torture people… and if you really believe God exists and is a tyrant horrible enough to torture people, then you shouldn’t ignore him when he tells you the things he will use to justify tormenting you.
“when someone prays and then works for what he wants and gets it, he comes to appreciate it more,”
More than what? Just having it handed to him on a silver platter… agreed. More than working for it without praying first… I don’t think so.
“praying also gives him that feeling of responsibality towards that thing and he feels that this earned money is not fully his, that helps that person to donate some of it to the poor!”
So, praying doesn’t actually help you accomplish anything more than just working without prayer… but it guilts you into donating some of your money to the poor?
“im just sitting simple examples here ok? let’s look at the one who doesnt believe in god, say he works gets money and all, he has that part in him that no one can ever deny it exist that tells him that this money is only his and no one is allowed to take any of it cause its YOURS you fuckin worked SO HARD for it, so no, you dont wanna help the others with it.”
You got me, I don’t know how you read my mind so amazingly well. I hoard every dollar I spend and I don’t ever help anyone or donate to any kind of charity. You obviously don’t know any unbelievers. However, if you need threats from an imaginary man to motivate you to help out those who are less fortunate, then please — keep believing in whatever imaginary creature motivates you to act as if you actually cared about the other humans living alongside you.
“Still sounds Supernatural? not really.”
I agree, nothing supernatural — which kinda makes me wonder why you mentioned it. Especially since you were originally telling me Islamic prayers were effective. So far you’ve only argued that they’re effective at guilting you into donating money to charity, not that they’re effective at getting messages to and from God.
“it has something to do with your soul! oh please tell me you believe in souls.”
“As for praying to God, first of all i have reached the point where i stopped wasting my time asking why the heck do i have to pray to god if helping is just as important cause i simply started to Want to pray to god cause its the least i could do to thank him for everything he gave me!”
Perfect, you admit that praying is ineffective… or at least that praying and then working is just as effective as working without praying. Finally something we can agree about. Oddly, it also means God didn’t really give you anything — since you still had to work for all of it.
“no matter how things can get worse i always remind myself that there are people out there that have much much worse lives than mine.”
Motivating yourself by focusing on the misery of others… interesting. For me, that motivates me to do what I can to help make their lives better in whatever way I can. I don’t use the suffering of others to make myself feel better.
“i come from Palestine, you should understand, i spend my life fearing for my family’s lives.”
Not a position I envy, and not a position I would wish on anyone.
“and btw, english isnt my mother language so exuse my mistake. although i believe it is understandable enough for you.”
You’re doing great. Your English is much better than my Arabic.
“I never even think of God torturing me if i didnt pray cause i was busy doing something else, Islam teaches us that He is the most Merciful.”
How can you say he threatens to torture you if you don’t perform specific redundant actions and then say he is “most merciful?” Torturing people is not even slightly merciful.
“all i know and all i could care about is that helping others is just as important as praying.”
Wrong, helping others is far more important than talking to an invisible man who supposedly already knows everything.
“all proofes of praying being healthy to your mind and body are books i own, i did a very simple research on the internet though and found this
read it ALL and tell me what you think.”
The video we are discussing specifically asks about prayer groups, and why God would need multiple people to ask God to do the same thing before he finally answers — and I pointed out that a simple phone call is much more effective at delivering a message and getting a message in return. The link you provided does nothing to show that prayer is effective at getting a message to or from God — and definitely not even close to the effectiveness of a telephone. It also doesn’t explain why group prayers would be needed in order to get a message to or from God.
“listen, sometimes you say that you have opened your mind up and discovered God doesnt exist, but fact is you have closed it and you’re refusing to believe in God.”
I’ve discovered that the reasons I used to have for believing in God just don’t work. And then it’s simply a matter of being intellectually honest with myself. With no reason to believe that any gods exist, I simply don’t believe in Gods. My mind is open to change — if evidence can be provided, but understand — if I can come up with a non-supernatural explanation for your “evidence” then it’s NOT evidence. If your “evidence” is just an assertion – it’s NOT evidence. Simply pointing out something that science can’t explain is NOT evidence. If I can replace the word “God” with “Fairies” and the argument still works, it’s NOT evidence. I’m not refusing to believe in God, I’m refusing to believe in ANYTHING for bad reasons.
“just make sure you did the right decition”
Not believing in God wasn’t a decision, it was a result. Not believing in God came as a result of an honest inquiry into the argument used to defend the existence of God. When the arguments failed, there was no reason left for believing in God.
“again, sorry for any grammer or spelling mistakes, english isnt my first language.”
No problem, as I said – Your English is much better than my Arabic.